12/28/12 09:55PM
Pie said:
Well Karkat does have a somewhat similar nurturing role though he does bury it in typical Karkat-y grump and isn't quite so obvious about it as Kanaya is. You almost never see it in hetero ships though, you're right (it's mainly prevalent in Tropicshipping and Sickleback though again those two ships do have canon basis for it)

Actually it's true that Hussie won major points with me by depicting Karkat going out of his way to comfort a depressed Terezi during the Meenah games. More proof that Adorabloodthirsty is the OTP.

I just wish there were more examples of a male troll trying to get a female troll to cheer up/lighten up/loosen up. Because that is one of only two examples I can think of among the original twelve trolls, which is pretty pathetic when you consider how often it goes in the other direction.

(The other one involves Sollux and Aradia in this post: Which is legitimate, but that dynamic was completely subsumed when Aradia came back to life and became all smiles again. Now if either person is mopey and needs cheering up in 2spooky, it's definitely going to be Sollux, although I admit there's quite a lot of mutually-happy 2spooky art.)

So as not to feel like I'm derailing the thread, I'm going to have to namedrop Feferi at some point, so, there. I just... I just did. Hooray for not being a harmful distraction!
12/28/12 10:11PM
I might be giving Hussie too much credit but seeing as he does a lot of subverting of traditional gender roles as it is, I wonder if all this is a subversion of the traditional roles a lot of works of fiction take with the crying distraught female being comforted by her big strong man. I mean, now that you bring it up there are definitely a metric shitton of works of fiction in which you can find that very dynamic, while the amount of works in which females are largely the emotional stability is quite rare. I agree the comforting could definitely be more evenly distributed gender wise, but if in a sense that is the intention, or close to it, I can definitely appreciate that. For all the accusations of sexism he gets, Hussie's females are almost universally less emotional trainwrecks than his males.

That's not to say they aren't trainwrecks (lord knows EVERYONE in Homestuck is a trainwreck), but they seem to be more equipped to cope at least.

Or bullshit it perhaps is the better term. They are all indeed huge messes.

But yeah serious thread derailment, sorry bout that.
12/28/12 10:28PM
Very true! But then if you take it too far in the other direction, as Hussie has done with the trolls (not with his human-human dynamics though, the kids are all pretty well-adjusted, at least in comparison), then you start running into the equally unhappy idea -- also well-supported in fiction -- that the female has some obligation to do all the emotional heavy lifting and be the manic pixie dream girl who perks up the sullen, self-absorbed male's life.

It's like, a bunch of weepy girls who need comforting, or a bunch of mopey guys who need enlivening? An ugly choice if there ever was one. Better to steer clear of either extreme and try to distribute upbeat/downbeat personalities evenly between the sexes.

Feferi Feferi Feferi. Boy she sure is a huge bitch who should never have dumped Eridan, and everything Eridan did after that point sure was justified as fuck.
12/28/12 10:30PM
Beelzebibble said:

Feferi Feferi Feferi. Boy she sure is a huge bitch who should never have dumped Eridan, and everything Eridan did after that point sure was justified as fuck.

I sure hope you are joking :Y

Thought processes like that are what make Eridan fans look bad.

I love Eridan to death, but he fucked up.
So did Feferi, but Eridan definitely fucked up.

(I honestly think he had a legit mental breakdown but at the risk of being called an apologist, I'll leave it there).

Also Feferi and Eridan's pale breakup is actually a pretty good example of him showing that one side of the relationship doing all the emotional heavy lifting ends up horribly usually... hmm slight inconsistency there, Hussie.
12/28/12 10:38PM
Sorry, definitely a joke.

Theorizing about a legit mental breakdown on Eridan's part would not be out of place in a topic for attacking/defending Feferi, though, so fire away if you want.
12/28/12 10:47PM
It's not really even about attacking Feferi just so much as it is my firm belief Eridan did not kill her out of jealousy so much as he was legitimately in a place of serious despair and anguish. Homestuck has a very clear relationship with young people snapping mentally, and I mean snapping not "gettin mad", I don't see why this isn't applied to Eridan when it's so obvious to me. Feferi did some things to instigate yeah, which is why I don't see her as blameless, but I just never saw it as "rawr my wife is sleepin with another man, better blow her guts out" and more as a girl who was tired and made some bad choices and a boy who broke down and made some awful choices.

I don't excuse anything either of them did, but I kinda feel like they're both largely to blame, but at the same time not really to blame at all. He most certainly had no right to kill her, but there's a reason we persecute the mentally ill differently than the competent even if the crime is the same.

I find the "jealous boyfriend" depiction of Eridan in that moment incorrect though. Before then, yes he was obviously sick and envious of Sollux being with Feferi to the point of being a humongous jerk, and I get why people assume it was that way when he killed her and tried to take out Sollux too but I think in that moment when he actually pulled the trigger, he really did break down and self defense and just exhaustion overtook him. I think in a sense she broke down too. They all made their choices of their own free will, but I don't think he was... ok at the time.

The complete lack of hope and all that, without hope there is no life.

It's just really sad to me more than anything. No excuses from me, just... a lot of sadness.

(sorry I was never good at picking out lines and pages to support my feels, these are just my thoughts take em or leave em)
12/29/12 12:53AM
I leave for like... 12 hours and come back to Matriob, het/gay pairing, Gamzee, Kanaya, and gender roles all over my nice clean thread. *grabs thread broom*

But yeah someone made a good point. The Horrorterrors, that is, Feferi's big connection to the story, are just as mysterious as her motives themselves right now. We may yet see something. The story isn't over yet. Part of me hopes Hussie isn't joking about the Squiddle session. Either in the comic, or the game. I'm always up for more Squiddles creepypasta.


I dunno. The possibility that Hussie would/could fail in any way to fully develop his characters or story never really occurred to me. Ever since I first started reading Homestuck, I've felt that way.
12/29/12 01:27AM
Well I don't really have much else to say about Feferi so ollies outie I suppose.
12/29/12 01:36AM
Yeah, sorry for derailing the thread from Feferi for that little bit there, I'm not very good at these sorts of intellectual discussions. I might just lurk 'em from now on.

I don't really have much to say about Feferi though? This thread has given me a bit of insight on her though, I will say.
01/05/13 04:20AM
How the hell did I miss out on this conversation? This is just too much to jump in on.
01/12/13 07:44AM
Sorry to revive this topic, but OP do you still have the source on the wall-of-text image you have?
01/12/13 08:06AM
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