08/05/13 05:25PM
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I don't understand why "Undergarments" and "School Boys and School Girls" are pools. There's no reason I can think of why they should be pools while "swimsuit" and "pajamas" are tags.

Could we just convert them to tags? "undergarments" and "school_uniform"? Or does anyone have a good reason why they should remain pools? I'm hoping for something other than "that's the way we've always done it."
08/06/13 09:08AM
I believe the Undergarments pool was created around the same time as the Dat Rack, Dat Rump, Dem Hips, pools for similar reasons.
08/06/13 02:01PM
But it's not very pervy. I mean, some of those pictures in Undergarments, sure, but not the majority. Anyway, how did "swimsuit" pass muster as a tag then? Is an image of a girl in a bra and panties more provocative than an image of a girl in a bikini of the same dimensions?

I realize you're not necessarily defending that argument, just citing it. I don't think it's a good argument, though. For another thing, "dat rump" etc. judgments are subjective; whether a character is wearing underwear or a school uniform is not a subjective call.
08/06/13 05:55PM
I believe I explained the difference between the response of undergarments vs swimsuits in another thread regarding ratings. It's more of the lines of art featuring undergarments are usually meant to provoke a sexual response since these articles of clothing are meant to be private and usually associated with bedroom activities. With swimsuits, while there are some provocative styles meant to titillate the viewer, they are usually clothing meant to be seen in a public area and associated with beach, pool, or general summer settings.
08/06/13 06:27PM
Okay, let me try to deconstruct the argument from prudery a little. Adding an image to some "distasteful" pool doesn't make that image go away, as any fule kno. It doesn't protect the sensitive viewer from running across that image. It's actually completely counterproductive if that's the aim! Someone who's squeamish about viewing Homestuck characters in undergarments (no matter how casual and nonsexual the depiction) can block a tag, but they can't block by pool. So no pair of delicate eyeballs has ever been spared the sight of Jake in panties and garters because "Undergarments" is a pool. If "undergarments" were a tag, they could take steps to avoid seeing such imagery if that were their preference.

People didn't want Dem Features as tags, they wanted them moved to pools. I think that's totally fine. As I said above, "Dat Rump" etc. is a subjective judgment and if people didn't want those perving up the tag lists, I wouldn't say a word against them. Subjectivity is one of the best reasons for picking a pool over a tag. But if you don't want to see undergarments, what you need is a tag you can block, not a pool that you can't do anything about. And I maintain that there's no other argument but the argument from prudery to justify why "Undergarments" is a pool -- it's not subjective, it's not amorphous, it's not overly specific or based on ratings or anything. Both prudes and libertines would be better off if it were converted to a tag.

And if there's no argument but the argument from prudery for "Undergarments", then there's no argument at all for "School_Boys_and_School_Girls", which would lose nothing by switching over to "school_uniform", and be a lot easier to manage.
08/08/13 12:50AM
I think the thing was undergarments was briefly originally a tag, but it got turned into a pool(I can't recall who created the pool).

It feels like at times that tags and pools are interchangeable which is why some folks think that a tag would be better off as a pool, while some think a pool would be better off as a tag.
08/08/13 04:32AM
Chocoboo, I got mad respect for you, but what you just said amounts to "There's not much meaningful distinction between tags and pools, we might as well not argue this."

There are six or seven excellent reasons to favor a pool instead of a tag. I could enumerate them more clearly (like, I really could, if you actually wanted me to, but who wants another wall o' Beelz?), but the point is, as I've said above, "Undergarments" and "School Boys and School Girls" satisfy none of them. And "Undergarments" actually has a very good reason to be a tag, namely that people can blacklist tags. You haven't addressed that, which was really the main point of my last post.

(Meanwhile, "School Boys and School Girls" just has no call to be a pool -- none. There's no reason it's a pool while "swimsuit" and "pajamas", etc. are tags.)

I'm sorry for carrying this on, but the one suggesting the change is the one who has to fight inertia, and I really think these two changes would be completely beneficial.
08/08/13 04:58AM
I wish there was more discussion about this especially from the people who created the pools in the first place to get their input on the reason for the pools than just the two of us. I'm not much of a rep for the whole community since personally, I don't care either or are tags or pools(though some others might)?

I just gave out reasons possibly why "undergarments" was turned into a pool at the time and it just sort of stuck.

Not sure why the school kids pool was created though. Maybe Pie can explain.
08/09/13 05:31PM
I agree, it would be nice if... someone else would... care to... maybe weigh in on this.......

08/20/13 09:39PM
Character Spotlight pools are a go. For now, let's just stick to the beta kids.


You'll notice if you check those out that Dave is way behind. Like, crazy, embarrassingly behind. Yes, the much-ballyhooed precious darling angstbaby of the Homestuck fandom is actually the least-loved beta kid on this booru in a walk. I'm trying to use some strategic upvotes to get more qualifying images, but there's a limit to what I can do alone (even with the help of anonymous upvotes from outside the account hem-hem). So Dave needs you guys to help out!;tags=dave+solo+score%3a6;tags=dave+solo+score%3a7;tags=dave+solo+score%3a8;tags=dave+solo+score%3a9

If you see an image you like on one of those pages, upvote that shit! Or if there's another suitably Dave-centric image you can think of that belongs in the pool (criteria in the description), then bump it if you like.

Also, just because I am working on this now, that -- that doesn't mean I'm not still worked up over the undergarments/school uniform issue, o-or anything.


(Seriously though I wish Pie or anyone else would weigh in on that.)
08/20/13 11:11PM
I make pools because I'm not really keen on making tags and never finishing them (I'm kinda getting busy and just finding my entertainment elsewhere and... how to put this politely... there are a fucking butt ton of unfinished tags, I mean still a good chunk of this board is untagged and all this fuss over making more tags which just adds to the problem is... taxing but I've said that about 15 times at this point to absolutely no effect so maybe I'm kinda done saying it I guess) while pools being unfinished are kind of less of a big deal as obviously more people use tags as a means of grouping and searching, the pools are kind of an added benefit.

(Also I consider it good manners to just not make a tag out of the blue, but again pools function under a different law in my mind so I don't mind just making one up and working on it myself because again the lack of completion in pools kinda feels less of a problem to me, maybe because it's out of sight and not so visibly messy idk)

Quite honestly, I feel like night time should be a tag, and I really have no issue with school_uniform being a tag or whatever, but I don't have the energy to make it happen properly, so I don't push it right now. But what I have and always have had an issue with is 30 tags being started and never finished. I know I have suggested some tags that I need to finish (namely all_kids I know) but it reached the point of ridiculousness about... 3 months ago, and all this talk about making new tags when I know that means other tags will be shoved to the side is kinda annoying.

It's not even a matter of yes tag or no tag it's just I've been going through the booru trying to tag things up and actually get this board on it's feet fully and even though I've been through every picture up to 18.2k I'm now faced with the realization that probably none of these picures I went through are now up to date anymore since 30 tags have been introduced and put onto maybe 200 pics since I last tagged those.

There's me weighing in on it.
08/21/13 02:26AM
Added post #76978 post #14685, (edit) post #77354 in the Dave pool. Also some upvotes in progress.

(Also BTW there are about twice as many Dave+Bro pics than John+Dad, Rose+Mom, Jade+Gramps, Jade+Bec pics altogether. It's Striderangst the fandom's hooked on, not Daveangst)
08/21/13 08:56AM
Suggesting the pool:


for pictures that reach a score of 40 or higher.

There are currently eight:

post #176 post #6040 post #67026 post #71162 post #71231 post #82029 post #98016 and post #99961

There is also one that has hit 60, but since that is only one for right now, that seems a bit excessive.
08/21/13 02:24PM
Thanks, Trop. You're probably on to something there: a search of "dave solo" (which aren't the only qualifying pics, but to keep it simple) returns nearly the same number of results as "rose solo" despite her being substantially behind him in tags altogether. They're both narrowly beaten by Jade, and then totally trounced by John, who has the solo market cornered despite trailing very slightly behind Dave in images overall.

So yeah Dave's solo offerings are actually quite out of proportion to his appearances on the booru altogether. Still, there are more very worthy images I'll try to nudge into his featured pool.

Anyway, to Pie: I know I've got some nasty tagging habits, to which you're alluding. I could defend some and admit others to be dreadful, but since this is the pool thread and I got blasted last time I let tag-dominant discussion take over here, let me stick to your pool-related argument:
I make pools because I'm not really keen on making tags and never finishing them

while pools being unfinished are kind of less of a big deal as obviously more people use tags as a means of grouping and searching, the pools are kind of an added benefit.

because again the lack of completion in pools kinda feels less of a problem to me, maybe because it's out of sight and not so visibly messy idk

Quite honestly, I feel like night time should be a tag, and I really have no issue with school_uniform being a tag or whatever, but I don't have the energy to make it happen properly, so I don't push it right now.

What this boils down to is that you're laying aside the long-term benefits of a tag, especially searchability and blockability (the latter of which isn't an idle consideration for "undergarments"!), for one single short-term benefit of a pool: the fact that you're less uncomfortable with a pool that's not exhaustive than a tag that's not exhaustive. (There are obviously other benefits to pools, but not for things like "undergarments" and "school_uniform", and you didn't mention any of them.)

But this creates a self-perpetuating cycle. One's noticed a recurring theme and wants to make it either a tag or a pool; one doesn't have any strong arguments for making it a pool, but does so anyway because it's less uncomfortable for the pool to be incomplete; the pool eventually accrues hundreds of images to the point where it would be much more useful as a tag (as, again, there's no other good reason for it to be a pool); but by that time it's so large that one can only say "I just don't have that much energy to give, whatever, keep it a pool."

That cycle's been broken at least once before. It was with the pool FRECKLESTUCK, now the tag "freckles". I didn't contribute to the decision there or the workload that followed (not sure I was active in booru politics yet), but I'm really happy that was able to happen and it would absolutely be me shouldering the burden if we resolved to convert "undergarments" and "school_uniform" as well. (And, Pie, I'll even throw in "nighttime" if you want. Other than the poetic pool name, I don't see any reason why that couldn't be a tag, too.)

Again, there's a lot of other meat in your post that touches directly on some of my shall we say "tagging problems", and I want to get into that, but this probably isn't the place. Let me finish by reaffirming that I'm prepared to take complete responsibility for making every conversion I propose here, if we accepted them. I'm not looking to foist work off onto anyone else. (Except upvoting Dave pics let's do it guys)
08/21/13 09:03PM
It's not that I don't believe you will take responsibility, and it's not even about what I think would or would not make an acceptable tag it's just that I'd like maybe 30% of the effort put into making more tags put into finishing up tagging the older stuff we have on this board (and I'm talking to everyone here, not just you I don't mean to come across so pointedly), because once everything is at least mostly fully tagged, going through and adding new tags completely (that being the operative word) will almost certainly be a lot easier, it's really a win win.

I guess my problem is more with the "when" rather than the what. I've really no problem with new tags in general but yes I'm laying aside things to focus on things that should have been done months ago.

But yeah this is thread derailment, and more suited for the tagging thread I guess. I know you guys do work on tagging, but there still remains like Iunno probably 20k completely untouched images with just their old Skaia tags so I guess it kinda irks me a little knowing even the ones I got to I almost certainly have to go back and add in ! ? trees and nose_picking or whatever.

I know everyone here does good work, and it's not like I'm tracking everyone's tagging stats so maybe it's just me being grouchy, that's a distinct possibility. Iunno that's just my honest opinion, again I have nothing against tags I just want to finish what's on my plate before having it added to too much.
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